Overview
If you think about brands that different countries have, most people probably have two strong associations for Kenya.
Safari and running.
The safari industry is well established, with innumerate tour companies able to take you on your dream holiday seeing the Big Five.
Running, however, is an industry which is much less developed.
In fact, until Enda, there were no running shoes made in arguably the home of running!
As we discuss in this episode, Nava, the co-founder of Enda Sportswear wanted a way to promote sports in her country and settled on building shoes as the biggest impact way to do so.
In the process, Enda has become a vehicle for promoting local industry, with all of the assembly taking place in Kenya, and many parts, such as shoelaces, being produced in the region too.
Nava and I talk about all sides of the business, including where and how the shoes are currently sold, the global (ahem) footprint that the brand has, and the practicalities of setting up production of high-end footwear in East Africa.
The Enda offices are in the same place as a number of artist workshops.
We’re doing the interview outside, and so there may be a bit of background noise from people moving stuff, as well as some chickens who wandered over at some point.
Sign up below to hear whenever there are new stories and episodes released on the podcast
Social Media Links
Website: https://ke.endasportswear.com
Facebook: EndaRunning
Twitter: @endasportswear
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/enda/
Transcript
Sam: 00:00 Intro
Sam: 01:58 Cool. So we’re here today with Nava from Enda, Nava welcome to the show.
Nava: 02:02 Thank you so much. Happy to be here.
Sam: 02:03 So to get us started, can you tell us a bit about you and a bit about Enda?
Nava: 02:07 A bit about me, I studied law. I am a lawyer by profession. I did accounting as well. I haven’t practiced either for a really long time and right now I’m making running shoes in Kenya kind of just working with athletes, create running shoes because I think it’s time to really make shoes in Kenya, by Kenyans who totally understand running and sharing that culture with the world. And I think I’ve also answered about Enda, so Enda is the company that does that and Enda is a Swahili word that means go which is basically we thought the best way to encompass a company that is like advocating for Kenyan running and sharing that culture around the world.
Sam: 02:50 Correct.
Nava: 02:50 Yeah.
Sam: 02:50 So Enda is the first Kenyan made running shoe in the world.
Nava: 02:56 Yes it is. Not Kenyan made, Oh yeah, running shoe, yes. I thought you were like saying other shoes. Yeah, it is the first Kenyan made running shoe in the world and also nobody is doing it in Africa. So we are also kind of…
Sam: 03:07 Really? The whole of Africa, no one’s making running shoes?
Nava: 03:09 No, nobody’s doing that. Like they are making different types of shoes but not pro-running shoes.
Sam: 03:14 Why are you not seeing running shoes?
Nava: 03:16 I don’t know. That’s a good question. I think it’s just a matter of maybe who are you producing for? What are you producing for? What’s the, I can’t answer that specifically. I just know we’re doing it. Yeah.
Sam: 03:29 Okay. Yeah. So the market you’re in is selling running shoes. So these are, who are you selling to? Are you selling to athletes to casual? Wearers like…
Nava: 03:40 Both I’d say runners definitely are the first crowd that got really attracted to us. There are also other people who are buying it in Kenya for the pride of it. Like something that’s made here locally and supporting us. And then there are people who are wearing it just for everyday wear. Like I’m going shopping or going to an event, like looking for something comfortable and wearing them. So I’d say we kind of cut a broad spectrum of of customers, but we do basically appeal to runners a lot.
Sam: 04:12 Okay. And so how many, like how long has the company been going?
Nava: 04:16 Our company is going, been going for about three years right now, roughly, getting there. So, but of course the earlier years were more of just setting up structures and in terms of production, they started in I think August, like mid 2017, so I’d say 2017 is when we really started operations. Before that, was just a lot of planning.
Sam: 04:37 Okay. So you’ve been sort of coming up to two years. Yes. Sort of shoes being made. Exactly. How many pairs of shoes are out there at the moment?
Nava: 04:44 That’s a good question. I would say right now about the first run, we did like about 2,500. We’ve done quite a bit, I would say about like over 4,000, 4,000 pairs are out and about all over the world. So, but our goal is definitely to increase that number because we know we have capability to reach so many people. And make so many shoes.
Sam: 05:08 Yeah. Very cool. Okay. So lots of things to talk about. So I thought maybe we’d sort of start on the, on the demand side.
Nava: 05:16 Okay.
Sam: 05:16 So you said that, sort of these runners are the first types of people who you sort of started aiming at. What’s your sort of split between selling in Kenya and selling internationally?
Nava: 05:30 Kenya, I would say about 10% internationally, most of it is international. Yeah.
Sam: 05:37 And these are athletes who are famous or sort of like keen runners?
Nava: 05:44 Yeah. It’s like runners. I would say it cuts across a broad spectrum because we do have like people who are like really athletes running lots of races and they’re wearing them. We do have people who are starting out and they’re wearing them. So we do have quite a variety of different people who are wearing them.
Sam: 06:01 Okay.
Nava: 06:02 Yeah.
Sam: 06:02 What type of shoes did these guys wear before?
Nava: 06:05 So a runner typically has like different types of shoes. So you have like a daily trainer, you have a light-weight trainer, you have like spikes, you have trail shoes. So people, right now our key products are I light-weight trainer and a daily trainer. So those are the categories where we kind of like entered into and most of the people who are wearing our shoes are people who are in those categories, right.So they would be wearing them for running, for walking, for comfort that specific category.
Sam: 06:37 Okay. Once you have a, if you’re serious about running, you have different shoes based on the type of athlete.
Nava: 06:41 Yes. Yeah.
Sam: 06:42 Why is that?
Nava: 06:43 Because different shoes are for different purposes. You know, if you are going for a 42 kilometer race, you’re not going to use the same shoes that you go to the gym with. Right? Like you need something that has more cushion, it’s softer. It’s kind of taking you the longer ride because it’s also kind of like endurance, like your body needs, like the best support mostly in terms of just the cover, like the rubber between you and the ground. And also like the consistency of the EVA, which is the component that is used to make the mid-sole. Like it has to be soft and yeah, like you, whatever you use has to be different. If you are running like a hundred meter, it’s a different shoe. Right? So basically there’s different types of runs and you want to make sure that you’re using the best shoe for that. So for example, I wouldn’t use a road shoe for trails. You’re just going to go break your neck or something, you know, a trails shoe would need something that has more like more rubber that is basically really avoiding the friction, like having more friction to keep you stable. So it’s different runs, different shoes. Yeah.
Sam: 07:51 Alright. So there’s different, different times. Okay. And so is it the case that the people buying it they’re like they’re just adding Enda as like another pair of shoes they got? Or will they be like switching out from Nike or whatever.
Nava: 08:05 I mean the thing is like as a new brand already there were people wearing other brands when you come in. So of course they will switch your product with something and that’s the beauty of running because a lot of people who run, they replaced their shoes a lot. So that means that also, are keen on seeing what’s new and also the way the industry is, is created is that there’s always like new product releases or something like that. So the runners mentality is geared towards trying something new. Right. Which has a good side and a bad side. But from the market entry perspective, it worked for us because they were willing to try something that was different and was new in their daily rotation. Yeah.
Sam: 08:45 That’s really cool. And then how much do they cost?
Nava: 08:48 They cost $100, which is like 10,000 Kenyan shillings.
Sam: 08:51 Okay. Is that expensive for a pair of running shoes?
Nava: 08:55 Nope. I mean if a pair of running shoes would go, at least for the light-weight trainer, would go from like $80 to $250. So it really just depends on like what you’re investing in. But if you compare us to other brands in that specific category, we are basically like right at the affordable level. So from, if you’re looking at is from a competitors perspective, we are basically just price right for the market for that kind of shoe.
Sam: 09:21 Alright. And then how do most people like actually physically buy?
Nava: 09:25 Most people mostly two ways: online, that’s our key method of selling. We’re direct consumer brand, so we sell online and do deliveries and the other one is we also do a lot of popups, especially here in Nairobi, just being at places where people can see the shoes, touch them, try them on. And of course the long-term plan is to get into stores. Yeah.
Sam: 09:47 Why have you not decided to try and get into stores earlier on?
Nava: 09:51 In the US we actually are in three stores. So kind of just a good start and hoping to expand and get into more doors. In Kenya, it’s also, I mean, one of it is linked to resources and capacity. Like basically we have to it’s a small team and we have to figure out how to do this in the most efficient way possible. Secondly, it’s also a new brand. So a lot of the re-sellers or stores especially locally would want to already sell something that they know the customer knows about, right? So they want it needs more investment in marketing so that it’s not just based on the re-seller to say, oh this, there’s this new shoe, it’s about x, y, z. It’s much easier for them if someone says, I am coming to look for this particular shoe. So it’s kind of part of the, our plan in terms of just getting more one out of the marketing and creating demand to get to a point where the retailers are actually being asked for shoes and then they can be able to stock because they have the confidence to say, people are asking for this products. Yeah.
Sam: 10:58 What’s the benefit for going in stores like that?
Nava: 11:00 Because people, people, especially in Kenya, we are not yet an online society. Like a lot of people still prefer using hard cash. A lot of people are not comfortable with online purchases. I think it’s just a, it’s a new thing, right? We do use M-Pesa but M-Pesa is not an online purchase, like it’s mobile. Whereas going on a website and doing all of that, a lot of people, it’s a new experience for them. So that’s why we tried to do pop ups as much as possible so that they can also come and for other people they also just want to try the shoes fast before they buy them online. So what we did is just essentially say free exchanges and returns. You can try as many as you want and we’ll literally just be bringing them over so as to give people that comfort of knowing that they can still order online and not feel bad, or not be afraid that the shoe won’t fit. Yeah.
Sam: 11:55 Do many people do that? Do many people actually send them back.
Nava: 11:58 So not really. I mean one of the things we’ve really been working on is getting the sizing right. So a lot of people do get in touch and say if they have any concerns they would ask us and we would recommend for them. But we have also translated our sizes in UK, EU, and basically all other sizes and US as well, so that it’s less confusing for people. Like, whichever your size regime you, you can find yourself there. Most people have a problem converting one into the other.
Sam: 12:26 Yeah.
Nava: 12:27 Yeah.
Sam: 12:27 Cool. Okay. And so this is people will be going on the website, pick out, I want the lightweight or daily… Did you call it lightweight and daily?
Nava: 12:36 Right now we just have the light-weight, the daily one, we are producing it as we speak. Yeah.
Sam: 12:42 Does it have like a name? Is it called like Enda light-weight?
Nava: 12:45 The lighter it is called the Iten. Yeah. So Iten is a small town in Rift valley.
Sam: 12:49 So not E number 10?
Nava: 12:52 No, no, no, no. Like I T E N.
Sam: 12:56 I T E N.
Nava: 12:56 Yeah. Someone would say I ten but in Kenya its Iten. Yeah. So Iten is a small town in the rift valley. It actually has the world’s highest concentration of gold medal winners, as I really.
Sam: 13:07 What do you mean the highest concentration of gold?
Nava: 13:09 In athletics. In running like, yeah, it’s a small town up there in high altitude and everybody trains there. Everybody. Everybody from around the world goes to Iten if you’re running.
Sam: 13:22 What is so good about it?
Nava: 13:22 The altitudes, the altitude and then also the fact that everybody’s there. So there’s like a very strong running community over there. And you’re not alone. Like in the morning there’s group runs, there’s athletes staying in like camps. So it’s really much a running town also called the home of champions. Yeah. So we basically named that Iten then the new one, the daily trainer that we’re working on right now is called the Lapatet. Lapatet is a Kalenjin word for run, it means run.
Sam: 13:54 What’s Kalenjin?
Nava: 13:56 Kalenjin is a local language. In Kenya we have about 42, but most of the runners come from the Rift valley and they speak Kalenjin. So the term lapatet is very it’s very common in running in the running world, in the Rift Valley. So when we were naming it, we knew like they, they, they are happy about that. Yeah.
Sam: 14:19 Do you speak Kalenjin?
Nava: 14:20 No, no, no, no. I don’t speak Kalenjin, but one of the things we do, and we are trying to name our products, we always reach out to our community and kind of, even Iten was a suggestion by someone through Facebook because we were going to give it some other name. And someone was like, no, no.
Sam: 14:35 What were you going to call it?
Nava: 14:36 I cant even remember, one of the animals.
Sam: 14:40 A cheetah perhaps.
Nava: 14:40 Exactly. And then, you know, it’s always amazing, someone is like, you know what, we kind of like know about tourism but we are in running world. So like, let’s keep it like closer to the running culture as possible. And same for Lapatet, we were like, hey guys, we’re trying to name this shoe, what do you think we should and we got like lots of ideas. But the person who suggested naming it Lapatet had a really compelling reason why we should call it that.
Sam: 15:07 What was that?
Nava: 15:07 Basically the, you know, like there’s North rift, South rift, you know, there’s like all this demarcations we have internally, but also just the fact that a majority of the runners understand the word Lapatet and also using the shoe to tell a story. It’s not just a product, but someone who’s buying it has to ask, what does this mean? You know? So it’s a medium to have a chance to educate or to share the culture of the Kalenjin, of the running culture with someone else in a, in another part of the world. So the whole cultural exchange thing was also very interesting and also just the linguistic aspect, like he had a really great explanation of how the whole, the word lapatet is linguistically different anyway, we have a video on Facebook about that. Yeah. We actually called him, it was like, you know, you do this, you’re like the best at explaining it. Yeah. Go, go for it. But it also does the story of Enda, like using the shoes not just to be products, but also as vehicles for social mission and also for like fostering a culture of empathy and like knowing what other communities around the world are doing. Like kind of like an education of sorts. Yeah.
Sam: 16:27 Okay. When people talk about sort of Kenyan runners, is it basically kalenjin runners?.
Nava: 16:34 Yes and no. Majority, yes. Because of course the Rift valley and the high altitude is like a big plus. But we do have lots of runners who are also not from the Rift Valley. So, for instance Henry Wanyoike he’s really good, broken like, lots of records and wins a lot we had the late Samuel Wanjiru, who also did not come from the Rift valley, came from the central part of Kenya. We do have another one. One of our athletes actually is called Daniel Simiyu, who comes from the western part. So, predominantly they are, but not all of them. Yes.
Sam: 17:14 At the moment, you said 10% Kenya. 90% international.
Nava: 17:17 Yes.
Sam: 17:19 As you sort of project forward, what do you think that might start looking like?
Nava: 17:23 Oh, I think it will grow. You know, I feel like the, I still meet a lot of Kenyans who haven’t heard about our brand, so I know for a fact there’s a growth margin that we still haven’t captured. I think it’ll grow both ways. You know, like in the US also we aren’t known that much. Like those who know about us, know, about us, but I still feel like there’s a whole world out there that has no idea that Enda exists. So I do see also growth from, I’d say from both perspectives. I do see a lot of growth opportunity.
Sam: 17:54 Nice. Okay. And what’s the sort of pitch to people? Is it, can you rely on Kenyan running shoes or did you need to say… I kind of get it if you’re living in Kenya and you’re like, you know, you want to buy running shoes that are produced here and you want to support the Kenyan economy. Does that pitch work as well internationally or do you need to sort of change it around abit?
Nava: 18:19 Really? I think it works because even if you check the Hashtag #runlikeaKenyan, you know, like it’s, it’s actually, it is a legit Hashtag. It’s not used mostly in Kenya. It’s like a global thing. Like, so the fact that you just said running shoes made in Kenya, it’s an automatic click for anyone runner or not, you know? So I do feel like the running culture history tradition of Kenya has been so solid over the years that it is unquestionable. Right. So I think it’s kind of still keeping it simple and saying Kenyan running, but also, you know, like for us, producing quality products that match that excellence as well so that people associate that excellence with our products and the fact that we are working with athletes to develop this products. Yeah.
Sam: 19:09 Okay. So let’s actually talk a bit more about the production side of the shoe, So company started about three years ago, kind of went into production about two years ago. What’s that process been like?
Nava: 19:23 It’s, it wasn’t easy to be honest. It was a lot and it did take us a long time because we were essentially trying to establish a lot of things over here from fact finding a factory that could work with us because we knew from the outset we would be a contract manufacturer. The resources required to set up a factory…
Sam: 19:43 Contract manufacturer.
Nava: 19:44 Yes. It means you go to a factory, you lease out their lines you make what you’re making and then you exit.
Sam: 19:52 You don’t have to like buy a factory?
Nava: 19:54 No, you don’t have to buy it and have to build it, you don’t have to make it, which I think is really great, especially if you consider how manufacturing industry is so exclusive, if I can call that, like you need money to get into manufacturing. So if you, if more people are to get into manufacturing, I think contract manufacturing, especially in Africa is like a really good thing because you have one side with resources and you have another side with demand. So I may not be able to operate a fully functional factory for a year, but I can lease it for like two months or five months of the year. So it works both ways for both the factory and the entrepreneur.
Sam: 20:31 Okay.
Nava: 20:31 Yeah.
Sam: 20:31 So first of all, first thing you have to find the factory.
Nava: 20:34 Yes.
Sam: 20:34 How easy or difficult is that?
Nava: 20:36 It wasn’t easy to be honest. Like we literally went to every person who makes shoes or thinks about making shoes.
Sam: 20:43 Is there like a list of factories that make shoes. How do you, how do you find out?
Nava: 20:49 Google, talking to people. In Kenya, you talk to people a lot, yeah. People lie online. A lot of things are on the ground. So the thing is though, that networks already exist. So if I’m making shoes, I’ll tell you about someone else who makes shoes. And that’s how we basically went around. Went to Limuru. We went to a few places in Nairobi. Like we, we went to a lot of places and they were like, okay, I may not be right fit but talk to this person or this other person I know has something going on. So we spoke to a lot of people and we did hear a lot of people saying no, I think just the whole concept of contract manufacturing was, is new in Kenya. And also the fact that, you know, like people were like, why would you want to do that? You know, like, like it just felt like whatever we were trying to do was so big and so impossible that they were like, you know, like, okay, that sounds like really amazing and all the best, you know? Yeah. So we did…
Sam: 21:47 This is the concept of making a Kenyan running shoe?
Nava: 21:50 Yes. Yeah. So it felt like it was like a big order for a lot of people. And we did actually find the factory we are working with through someone read about us online and he was making shoes in Ethiopia. Right? Yeah. Shout out to Tal, Tal Detya. He was formally Olubate. They closed down, which I was, I found personally sad because they, they, they really came through for us and we didn’t even know him, like literally came through for us in terms of just giving us connections, he was like I bought my stuff in Kenya, this is what you need. Like talk to this person and that person. Yeah. Like he, he’s really good.
Sam: 22:36 And how did he know about you if you hadn’t made, hadn’t started making shoes yet?
Nava: 22:40 Kick-Starter I think. Yeah. I think by then we’d launched our Kick-starter.
Sam: 22:44 Alright.
Nava: 22:45 Yeah.
Sam: 22:46 So where does kick-starter fit into the story?
Nava: 22:49 Kick-Starter fits in, we did it in 2016 actually. Right. So we essentially got the prototype and then decided to launch it online as a way of raising funds. Also, we didn’t have all the funds and the, it had like really great momentum and I think there’s a lot of sharing on Facebook and stuff like that. And that’s how he read about us. And then he got in touch and he then at that he got in touch, we spoke with him and then after Kickstarter we were not able to continue with our previous manufacturer and Tal basically introduced us to Umoja. Yeah.
Sam: 23:32 Umoja is the?
Nava: 23:32 Umoja is the company that we work with here in Kenya. Yeah.
Sam: 23:37 In Nairobi or where are they?
Nava: 23:37 No, no, they’re in kilifi. Kilifi is one hour from Mombasa. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sam: 23:45 So the shoes get made in Kilifi? Okay.
Nava: 23:49 Yeah. Which is particular also, because Kilifi is also, I like places where, and that’s Also one of the reasons I respect Umoja, Kind of going to a place where you’re actually making a difference because it’s like deep in Kilifi and you are providing employment to residents around, so…
Sam: 24:08 Kilifi is kind of like, like a sleepy beach town, sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Nava: 24:12 So having factories over there is really good for the population.
Sam: 24:16 Okay. Yeah. So is that an, I mean, what’s the, what’s the, the requirements that you need? So you said that no running shoes have been made in Africa. Are there like fundamental things, which prevent you from doing that?
Nava: 24:28 I think especially you need to know kind of like understand the science of making running shoes. So you wouldn’t necessarily use any type of EVA. Like you, you need to know what consistency of the EVA you’re using. What’s the…
Sam: 24:46 Don’t mind me, that’s the…
Nava: 24:47 The mid-sole. Like it’s the kind of I’d call it plastic that makes, it’s basically the sole, the white part, like before the rubber at the bottom, like the soul. So you need it to be a certain density and a certain consistency. You need it to be. We make it through as a process called injection molding. So you create a mold and then you kind of inject the EVA into the mold. So you kind of need to have the safety requirements for that and stuff like that. You need to be able to know how to cut the patterns, how to stitch them because it’s a kind of like a special stitch. If you’re not careful, then you have a lot of mistakes that can happen. So there’s a whole process to it. And we basically were very ambitious at the beginning, but then we also realized the capacity of the factory depended on us kind of showing them and also us creating a demand that was worthy for them to also invest, invest in the process.
Sam: 25:44 I see. So is it like, if they’re already gonna make a thousand pairs of shoes, if they’re gonna make 10,000 pairs of shoes, it might be worth them investing in a piece of, a new piece of equipment.
Nava: 25:55 Exactly.
Sam: 25:56 Got it. Okay, how do you know how to make shoes? It sounds quite complicated. Is there someone in the team who like, is a shoe expert?
Nava: 26:04 So we basically had to look somewhere for someone to help us do that. And we were looking for someone who fit a certain criteria, would understand the mission that we are doing so that they would, they would understand where we, it’s important to make the shoes in Kenya and not in China. And we also needed someone who had the experience of making footwear for the global industry so that we weren’t going to spend a lot of time recreating the wheel, but essentially working with someone who has already made shoes for all the big brands and understands the process of making the shoes.
Sam: 26:35 How do you find that person?
Nava: 26:37 E-Mail, LinkedIn. You just ask people.
Sam: 26:41 What’s that? What do you search for on LinkedIn? Like do people call themselves like shoe experts?
Nava: 26:44 Shoe developers like you remember when you’re like searching on Google and you just create this like different things that might land you near where you went to be. So you’re like looking for a shoe maker shoe developer, shoe like everything under the planet that leads to that. And then you kind of meet people or you find people and then you email them and then they either get back or they give you a reference or they don’t get back. So it was a lot of networking and a lot of just asking anyone and everyone like, hey, we are looking for this specific skillset. Do you know someone who fits that pier? Yeah.
Sam: 27:28 And these people typically work freelance.
Nava: 27:31 Yes. We did meet a lot of freelancers who were basically either engaged in something or they were like, this is great, but I don’t have the bandwidth for it. Or like I’m interested or talk to this person. Yeah. There are actually a lot of freelancers in the industry.
Sam: 27:46 And how did you structure your contract? Did you sort of say, this is your deliverable, we’ll pay you X. Or was it like, we’ll pay by hour?
Nava: 27:54 Not really. You know. And that was why it was important to find a specific fit, right? Because we needed someone who understood why we are doing this. Right. So if you’re, if you’re purely like I want profit a thousand percent, you’d be like, I want to peak process, let’s make it in China and done, finished, show’s over, you know. So the kind of person we were looking for was very specific in terms of what motivates them and what drives them. So right now we do work with Dan Richard Designs, they’re based in the US and they are also we do have someone here in Kenya. You met him Cyprian and he’s also kind of working with them to make sure that we are getting the kind of products that we anticipated. Yeah.
Sam: 28:41 So are there some, I don’t want to say things you have to compromise on, but what are some of the differences you’ve had to make by the fact that the shoe was made in Kenya and not China?
Nava: 28:52 I wouldn’t say much. I think in the whole process, definitely time. I would say time. It took us much longer, much, much longer than we anticipated. That includes also just delivering the Kick-starter orders. We took so long. It took so long, I’m embarrassed about it.
Sam: 29:12 These are people who went on Kick-starter and they said I’d like to purchase some of the first pairs and you now have to go and make them. And there was just a few delays.
Nava: 29:25 So I’d say time. It took us a really long time.
Sam: 29:29 What were the main reasons for delay?
Nava: 29:31 First of all the supplier who we were supposed to work with essentially said no, I need bigger numbers. So we weren’t able to work with them. So we had to literally start.
Sam: 29:42 And find new suppliers.
Nava: 29:43 Yeah. Post Kick-starter. You know, like how everything is like all drawn out and it’s like back to square one. So it means shopping for a supplier discussing the terms, like getting to like to get to the point where you’re like, okay, now let’s, let’s do this. It, it took a really long time.
Sam: 30:00 What are the sort of supplies that you need to get?
Nava: 30:03 So you basically need someone to make them molds. You need someone to make the mid-sole in someone to make the uppers.
Sam: 30:12 What’s the uppers?
Nava: 30:13 The uppers are the up part of the shoe. Yeah. And then you also need here like the factory to be able to do certain processes like the stitching, the labeling, like the packaging. So there’s, it is actually a lot of people who are involved in like the whole supply chain. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Sam: 30:36 So you’ve got to kind of source all these, but you’re basically sourcing these three bits that the sell that…
Nava: 30:43 Yeah, we, so we source mainly the upper and the mid-sole and the idea is to move it progressively. So like now we are making shoelaces here. Now we are…
Sam: 30:56 How’d you make shoelaces?
Nava: 30:56 Is a factory that does that, you know, so it’s just giving them a specification of what we’re looking for.
Sam: 31:01 Yeah. Is it basically just like some fabric that’s turned over? It’s like stitched together?
Nava: 31:06 No, I think they knit it, like there’s special knitting machines for making that. Yeah. Cause otherwise if it’s fabric, then it can tear, you know, like, yeah, they have most of them are actually woven. And yeah. It’s also quite a process. Yeah. So…
Sam: 31:25 Fascinating. Such a process to like make shoelaces.
Nava: 31:28 Appreciate your shoelaces ladies and gentlemen. A lot of work went into it. Yeah. Yes. So, and then now we are experimenting with uppersto make them here. We actually also doing a local shoe, I’ll show you when we go back to the office. That is 100% locally-sourced. I’m very proud of it. Can’t wait for us to launch it.
Sam: 31:48 What’s that one going to be called?
Nava: 31:49 We haven’t had a name yet, but it has a really cool story. I think people will love the story behind it.
Sam: 31:57 Can we get a preview of the story?
Nava: 31:57 No, no. But we’ve worked with a few people on it, so their thought process has been really inspiring about what they’re putting into the shoe. It’s literally, I don’t know how to, it’s a work of art. Let me call it that, yeah. That’s as much as I can go. Yeah.
Sam: 32:24 So same thing. So sort of, the philosophy with Enda is to just use like with each of the different components that go into this.
Nava: 32:31 Yeah.
Sam: 32:31 It’s just like how can you be, I might be putting words in your mouth here, promoting Kenyan business and industry to sort of help in…
Nava: 32:39 Yeah. Because right now, for instance, that company is making shoe laces specific for our type of product because we asked them to. Before they were not doing it. The other companies that are providing other stuff, for example, the leather, the all these other, like, we, I feel like we play an important role in expanding the supply chain because business is about supply and demand. So if we are creating demand for another business to supply, then we are creating business. It means those people have jobs we like. It’s, it’s like a whole step by step process and I think that’s essentially the whole idea of establishing this industry locally, that there are people who are able to tap into it and benefit, that it’s not just the athletes, but we are literally bringing the benefits of running of the running industry locally.
Sam: 33:24 What’s some of the challenges you’ve had in the industry?
Nava: 33:27 Financing of course, that’s why we go to Kick-starter because Kick-starter is a good way to basically get money.
Sam: 33:34 How much did you need to get started?
Nava: 33:35 To get started? I’m trying to remember. Kick-Starter, we raised like about 140, but that was post.
Sam: 33:46 $140,000.
Nava: 33:46 Yeah. That was post like our own investments and getting family and friends to pitch in. I can’t remember the exact, but you do need like I’d say maybe like $250,000 to start up. And I’d say funding is a challenge and also it’s one of the reasons why I feel like we haven’t been in front of as many people as we can because it’s an investment to basically like marketing is a big deal and the running shoe industry is essentially a marketing industry. You know, it’s all about storytelling. So how do you get your story out there? So I’d say funding affects that. Challenges. Also just understanding because we are a direct consumer company, like understanding the whole digital marketing landscape. Like just how, you know, there’s just so much going on in that world. How do you optimize what words do you use, what pictures, how do you put all these things? So we are like doing it as we go. But we haven’t like found the, you know, we haven’t found the sweet spot. Exactly. I can’t wait to get there. But we are basically, right now, we are experimenting a lot of things and just seeing what sticks and what doesn’t. Yeah.
Sam: 35:04 What’s looking like it’s going to stick?
Nava: 35:08 I’d say at least we know it’s definitely going to be a lot of digital. We know that there’s a lot of like micro influencing. Yeah.
Sam: 35:19 That means like getting YouTubers to talk about it?
Nava: 35:22 Yeah. But there’s influencers and then there’s micro influencers, right? Influences are like the people with like huge accounts, but they don’t necessarily, like having a person with a huge following talk about you does not necessarily mean that they’ll convert, you know. People, I think, they’re assaulted by so much information that if you’re not coming off as genuine like people can smell it. They know what’s authentic and what’s not. So I feel as though A) because of our size, we also can’t afford some of the expensive stuff, but B) I would rather that people are hearing about us from people that actually care or are dedicated to their thing. And I feel like a smaller crowd is more intimate than it used to be in a big crowd. Right. So that’s some of the stuff we’re looking at. We also, like, we have a huge marketing plan that we want to, to execute. We have challenges but we’re like, at least we have a wish-list and here’s what we’re doing. But if we kind of get to the point where we need to be like, this is like us going full throttle.
Sam: 36:31 The challenges are more on the demand side than the supply side.
Nava: 36:34 Yeah, I feel like the supply side, we’re at a good position. We were, we had a lot of challenges when we started out. Absolutely. But I feel like right now the ducks are kind of like lined up on that side for now. It’s to now get more word out that about the product.
Sam: 36:50 Yeah.
Nava: 36:51 But that’s took close a lot of time, to get that sorted out. Yeah.
Sam: 36:56 How big is the Enda team?
Nava: 36:57 Not big. We are literally five and we have we have two volunteers, but it’s like in and out and that’s why I’m like hesitating because they’re leaving soon. Like, no. So we have, we have two volunteers. We have an intern and there’s the core team, which is about five of us right now. We are about to eight. This is the biggest, the team has been. And the volunteers are leaving. So I’d say we’re usually like about five, five, six.
Sam: 37:32 So basically, you’ve been able to sell 4,000 pairs of shoes, with just like five people?
Sam: 37:34 Yeah. That’s why I tell them they’re like a million dollar team because they, they have executed like even the last Kick-starter, it was the team that executed it. We raised $99,000.
Sam: 37:46 Was it deliberately $99,000 or we’re you just really close to getting to $100,000?
Nava: 37:49 We were really close to getting $100,000. We hit our first target was 80. Our next target was 110. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s still these people who are seated around that tiny table who did it right. So I’m kind of always telling them like they did it. It wasn’t anybody who walked in with this massive silver bullet. Like it was them hustling. So I think, I think the team is good and, but there’s definitely more room for us to be, for example, in the markets we need to be because we are here, our key market is the US. I don’t even think we’ve scratched the surface of that market because even most of the stuff we do is around here because we’re available. So we definitely are planning on expanding in the US market, kind of getting, at least setting up something or having a small team there that is also waking up and thinking about how do we everyday, how do we make and at least be known or grow in this market.
Sam: 38:49 Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay. So if you sort of look forward next year, 12 months time, what do you think Enda would be looking like then?
Nava: 38:58 I think we are going to be, I’m just smiling because I had the vision in mind. Like I’m definitely like I’m not, I see it in terms of growth in terms of customers and just numbers and people who are running in our shoes and kind of talking about our philosophy and understanding. So definitely more sales in terms of achieving our sales targets, and yeah, like more social impact, you know, like more. Cause the more we sell, the more the supply chain grows, the more we give to our community foundation. So I see that also as an opportunity for us to be a brand that cares, you know, like that people actually even locally associate us and they know that we are different because we’re not just paying lip service, but we are actually saying let’s invest back in communities. So I see a lot of like bigger, bigger social impact, if I could call it that.
Sam: 39:57 Okay.
Nava: 39:57 Yeah.
Sam: 39:58 So you mentioned that the community…
Nava: 40:00 Foundation.
Sam: 40:00 What’s that?
Nava: 40:02 So 2% of our revenues, we give them to a foundation which essentially invested money in community projects, right? So when we were starting out, getting funding was such a problem, you know, and we met so many people who are doing amazing stuff, but we also feel as though we were lucky in some sorts and have grown and we basically decided to be on the lookout for community leaders or people who are just doing something that is worthy in the community and they need an extra hand and kind of investing in that be it for profit or nonprofit. And also just the opportunity to engage our customers, like to be like a part of our community. So that is, you know, like there’s so much in the news going on about Kenya, but then do you know about this amazing stories that, leave the news aside? Like there’s actually really great stuff that’s happening on the ground. So we do involve our customers to make sure that when we have routine and saying, where should the money go? But it’s also, I feel like the world needs more empathy right now. Like there’s just so many I don’t know how to describe it. It’s like when you, when you’re in a city and there’s like bad news coming out of it and you turn on the TV and it’s like, I dunno, it’s like apocalypse or something. And then you stand outside and it’s like, oh my God, the sun is so beautiful. It’s like two conflicting, you know, things at the same time. So I feel like there’s there is, the world has gotten to a point where there’s just so much, there’s a lot of echo chambers. There’s a lot of mistrust. There’s a lot of all this stuff just because we think of the other people as the other, you know, and I think part of the community foundation thing and the whole essence you’re trying to create is that, to show that people’s stories at the same, regardless of where they live. We are all, we all want to achieve our dreams. We all want to like raise our kids in a clean world. We all want to like, there’s just different, there’s things that bind us together. And the whole idea of that community is to also kind of bring that empathy as we share the running culture and help people also run and become better.
Sam: 42:13 So we’ll just do a few more questions and that’s all right. Let me see, since, so you’ve been with Enda since the beginning, since it’s started, what have been some of the main surprises you’ve had, both, both positive and negative that you’ve had?
Nava: 42:28 That’s a good question. I think a bigger surprise, like a positive surprise has been the fact that the longer you go, the more you meet people who are aligned. Like when you start, it’s very difficult. You’re by yourself and you’re doing things and like it uses, It was Weldon and I for the longest time and the more we grow, the more you find that we have allies. And I think that’s a really cool thing. I love that because sometimes you’re like, I’ve been thinking about this problem for so long and then you find someone who purely like for no, no reason or anything that like people just want to help and to support. So I would say that has been like a pleasant surprise and also a proof for me in my personal life as well. Like sometimes you just jump, you know, like you, if you spend too much time analyzing you won’t do it. So maybe you’ll jump and maybe you’ll fall or maybe you’ll find other jumpers mid air and you’ll hold hands and like land together, but the process is through the fall. It’s not at where should I fall? Am I going to fall in this particular area or that? What are the pros and cons for this? Like it’s great to plan, but once you have the plan, like execution is more important because in the execution, then you find the, you find the helpers. So I would say that was a pleasant surprise that I feel like sometimes it gets hard, but I’m like, I need to hang on for tomorrow’s helper because I didn’t know who’s going to come through tomorrow. So it gives me that, you know, I need to just get through this day because,yeah. So I think that’s a pleasant surprise and another surprise, maybe not so pleasant. Is just people have different motivations, you know, like you have what drives you or what motivates you is not what motivates another person. So kind of just the disappointment of that and recognizing that there are people who you don’t necessarily agree on some fundamental things and that it’s okay to let go of that. That’s hard. I think that was had for me because I think relatively now that I can look back, I think I grew up in rather happy childhood. You know, like we, like I grew up in a place where I’d say there’s a lot of trust and a lot of people you don’t really second guess because you believe that the your neighbor or everybody has the best interests of everybody at heart. So I grew up in that environment and I think you kind of grow, go into the world and you realize that’s not how people are. Like some people just don’t care, you know, other people just have their own problems or other people have their own prejudices. So for me the surprise has been that, you know, like kind of, it’s, people are different and it’s okay. You know, it’s OK to, to know that not everybody thinks like that and it’s, you know, you can’t judge them because you don’t know where they came from, why they are the way they are. But just,I just learned that people like, we trust a lot here. We trust quite bit.
Sam: 45:44 “We” Being Enda?
Nava: 45:44 I think Enda, also just Kenya, like where I grew up, I grew up in a place that just does a lot of trust. Like people did stuff for people, like not just, not because of anything. Like I would, it would be raining and I would like remove your clothes even if you’re not there, because I know that you, your clothes would get rained on and you washed them, you know.
Sam: 46:06 If they’re out on the line.
Nava: 46:07 Yeah. So, yeah, I’m just thinking about it mentally, if they’re like on the line. Like if you see like someone’s kid, like walking around and without their parents, you would be sure that their parents would know that by the end of the evening. So there was a lot of support, I would say and trust in the community. And for me, the surprise has been that’s not how the world is. And it’s like sometimes you’re like, why would people choose to be miserable? But then I also realize that I just grew up in a corner of the world. I was like that and it’s not everybody’s like that. And that’s OK too.
Sam: 46:43 Okay.
Nava: 46:43 Yeah.
Sam: 46:44 Just quickly. What’s the how’d you end up starting Enda like, are you a runner?
Nava: 46:51 I say that question, don’t ask, if I’m in the Rift Valley. I’m not a runner. Like, no, no, no I don’t run yeah because you don’t want to run with those guys. But I mean you do, but they’re really good. So I met Weldon. I’ve always been interested in sports.
Sam: 47:10 Weldon’s your co-founder?
Nava: 47:10 Weldon’s my co-founder, I’ve always had a deep interest in spots. I don’t know why. I just like sports. Like I like the atmosphere. I like the competition. I like the personal stories, the triumph, the defeats. I love it. And at some point I had a dream of starting a sports academy in Kenya because I was like, oh my gosh, you know, like imagine if we had and I love tennis like now, Wimbledon is going on. And I’m like, oh my gosh, it would be so amazing if there was someone from Kenya, you know. But then the challenges are that barriers to sports, especially in the sports that are technical, You see we’re good at running cause you literally just wake up and run, Right. If you introduce a sport that is expensive, then it becomes so much harder for people to join. Right. Because they need to have a court, they need to understand the rules. There’s just like so much that goes on. And the idea was how about starting a place where kids wouldn’t have to worry about that and they could literally start training as early as other kids in the world. And we would like offer really good competition. And I was talking about this at a place like it was it was, an accelerator. Was it? It was, basically I was talking somewhere. Yeah. I was talking about…
Sam: 48:23 In Nairobi?
Nava: 48:24 Yes, in Nairobi, about the potential of sports and how Kenya we are so good, we’re so good at sports but we don’t do much with it other than just celebrate and that’s it, you know, and like engage with it. But from a more commercial perspective and Weldon was in the audience at that time. He was with change.org and literally, I think he was, he was like winding up with them and he was like, yeah, like the, the problem statements are like really compelling. Like, Kenya is so great, but we haven’t like done much with it. And when you, our conversation just turned to run running shoes and I think that was just like, a eureka moment of, you know, like why hasn’t this been done before? It makes so much perfect sense and saying, okay, let’s make running shoes and yeah, met a couple of days later and really had a long chat about it. And I think that was the day we’re like, okay, we are doing this. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like something to try and yeah. Many days later, here we are.
Sam: 49:31 That’s the history. People who are listening, how can they learn more about Enda?
Nava: 49:37 They can check us on our website, www.endasportswear, e n d a. People usually type Edna. I’m like, no, its Enda, endasportswear.com. We’re also on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter as well.
Sam: 49:55 What’s been a popular Instagram post you’ve had recently?
Nava: 49:58 Lupita, Lupita wore our shoes at some point. Lupita Nyong’o, the Kenyan actress who won an Oscar.
Sam: 50:09 The chess movie?
Nava: 50:10 Yeah, yeah. She did Queen of Katwe she also did 12 years a slave, and she’s really popular here. So she…
Sam: 50:17 She wore a pair of your shoes?
Nava: 50:17 Yeah, she did. So that was like really…
Sam: 50:22 Did she go for a run or did she just…
Nava: 50:22 Oh no, no, no. She just wore them out. Yeah. She was at a festival in New York. Yeah. So that was really cool. That was very popular yeah, I’d say that one was, it was quite popular.
Sam: 50:34 Okay.
Nava: 50:34 Yeah.
Sam: 50:35 So endsportswear is how people find it. Yeah. And then go on and, you ship around the world?
Nava: 50:40 Yes, we do. Yeah. We do have fulfillment centers here in Kenya and in the US around the world we ship from Kenya. But we basically work with DHL and, but you can still order on our website and we’ll be able to put your order through.
Sam: 50:53 Fantastic, cool. So Nava, thanks so much.
Nava: 50:55 Nice. Thank you too for having me. Enjoyed it.