Overview
One of the nice things about having a podcast is that it allows you to have conversations with people you wouldn’t otherwise get around to.
In this episode I sit down with John, the man who I buy my eggs from in Kenya.
In Swahili, “mayai” means “eggs” and so his customers know him as John Mayai.
John works from an apartment building in Nairobi, and stores thousands of eggs in the car park to then sell to individuals and small businesses wanting to buy them in multiples of 30.
We talk about how he started the business buying and selling 5 trays of eggs, and is now up to 80, how cold weather affects the price of eggs, and the main challenges that come from expanding the business.
Now, the big limiting factor John mentioned was the ability to buy more eggs and transport them back to the car park to then sell to local businesses.
“There’s always demand for eggs” as John put it, so it’s just a case of increasing the supply.
Immediately after recording this episode I went for lunch my friend Raaj and we got chatting about how we could help out John to expand his business.
Long story short, the next day we were in a car with him driving up to a large egg market on the outskirts of Nairobi, returning a few hours later with nearly 5000 eggs.
I made some recordings from the trip, and so who knows, perhaps one day it’ll get made into an episode.
Anyway for now, there’s lots of interesting insights from John and I’s conversation and so I hope you enjoy this episode.
John’s business is representative of how a lot of people in Kenya work and live – buying and selling products and at a low margin in order to fund other areas of their life, such as school fees for the children.
I hope you find it enlightening.
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Transcript
Sam: 00:00 Intro
Sam: 02:24 Cool. So we’re here today with John. So yeah, John, we’re going to talk today a bit about your your work and your, your side business.
John: 02:33 Okay. Side hustle.
Sam: 02:35 Yeah. So John Perhaps the best way to sort of get started is, is if you could just sort of give us a brief overview of sort of what you’re, what you’re doing right now
John: 02:49 In fact I started, sometime two years ago. I was impressed when I saw people buying eggs, others selling eggs and in the morning hours, I was, Idle.
Sam: 03:03 Yeah. Cause what is your, what is your main job?
John: 03:07 My main, I’m a chef.
Sam: 03:08 You’re a chef.
John: 03:10 I am a chef, employed here. But my business is my, it’s in my mind. I’ve been doing business throughout my life.
Sam: 03:19 Okay.
John: 03:19 But at the end of the day, my business came down and I was, I didn’t, I couldn’t go farther, so I had to look for alternatives. I was employed here.
Sam: 03:31 Yeah.
John: 03:32 So I have to work so that I can push my family and those who are in school, I push them. Now when I was here and business minded just going around, I saw people selling eggs, like I went closer and asked them how much are you selling these eggs? We’re are selling, by then they were selling Ksh 330, one tray. When I went to up country. I went to the market, I did my survey.
Sam: 04:04 Yep.
John: 04:05 I got there were people who were selling at Ksh 270, 280
Sam: 04:10 So when you say a tray of eggs, that’s maybe, is that 30 eggs?
John: 04:16 30 eggs, yeah.
Sam: 04:16 Okay. So upcountry.
John: 04:17 Upcountry they were selling Ksh 280, 270.
Sam: 04:23 Yeah.
John: 04:23 I bought five.
Sam: 04:25 Okay. So you said you had five times 270, so you had 1300?
John: 04:30 Yeah.
Sam: 04:31 1400.
John: 04:34 I had 14 cause I had fare, my fare.
Sam: 04:37 Yeah.
John: 04:38 I came with my five trays, not Knowing I would sell to who, but in my mind, even if he won’t to buy, I’ll go, I’ll look for somebody else.
Sam: 04:48 Yeah.
John: 04:50 And we went, I went, the first day I sold two trays. I was very happy.
Sam: 04:55 Yeah.
John: 04:56 Of course. Now the remaining are three, the next day I went, I looked for another option, another customer. He told me I want at least five. If you have three, still bring five. I told him I’ll bring three today, tomorrow I’ll bring five. It was a market day. I sold her three, I went to the market, I bought six.
Sam: 05:21 So you went back, you went back to the same market, upcountry?
John: 05:24 Yeah. Up Country.
Sam: 05:24 Okay.
John: 05:25 I bought six. I came, I sold, now this guy I sold him five. I went home with one. With that time, from then, I been, I didn’t have more money. I had only the little one and now I go, I try to buy 80.
Sam: 05:48 80.
John: 05:51 80, I deliver them now. They are used to me. They, we knew each other. They just take my phone, they ring me, bring bring, bring. And eventually, I saw I can make something. All the same, I have one child who is in, still in school and this child is doing nothing. So I have to push her. At least I push her until she gets whatever she wants. And the little money I get here working, they are not enough. So I have to strain myself. I feed the family I feed and the and the school fees. So I have to pull up my socks and I tried to, I don’t drink but I have a rule the little I have, I try to use it in an orderly manner.
Sam: 06:52 Yeah. Okay. So all of the so the, this, the egg business that you have that’s already sort of funding other parts of your family.
John: 07:01 Yeah, it is funding and pushing the, those who are in school, even now he’s at KMTC. He has finished, he has a certificate but he said a certificate is too low. He wants to advance.
Sam: 07:19 So he needs to go get…
John: 07:19 No, he’s now advancing. Still there. And since he’s determined, I said I’ll push him to the end. So we are there.
Sam: 07:28 Makes Sense. Okay. So at the moment, so two years ago you, you went up country and you bought your five trays of eggs.
John: 07:37 Yeah. From then, I’ve been going daily.
Sam: 07:40 Daily?
John: 07:43 No, weekly, weekly.
Sam: 07:43 And so you’ve slowly been increasing and now you, now you do 80 trays of eggs. How do you, how do you transport 80 trays of eggs?
John: 07:53 I put them in a big box like this one. I fold them with a rope, tightly.
Sam: 08:00 Okay.
John: 08:01 Then I put it in a ‘matatu.’
Sam: 08:03 Okay. ‘Matatu’ Is the bus?
John: 08:06 The bus. I pay as if it’s a customer. I pay the luggage and me.
Sam: 08:14 I see. Oh, so you pay for two fares. One is for you to sit and one is for the eggs to sit.
John: 08:19 Then when I come, to ‘Kawangware’ then I shift to another car. When it reaches here, now I get the trolley, I bring them here.
Sam: 08:30 Yeah. Okay. Do they have a break?
John: 08:33 No. They break. Yeah. Like do you see this one?
Sam: 08:37 We’re looking at this tray now where they are some broken eggs.
John: 08:41 They are broken, but they are not many. If you, they can be broken less 10. You won’t feel it. But if it’s more than a tray, it will cost you. You’ll cry, but all the same, I know they are perishable things.
Sam: 08:58 Yeah.
John: 08:58 And they list, they are not, I handle them with the care. When putting in the car, when offloading. You have to be very, very sensitive. Even whoever is helping you, he helps you in an orderly manner. You pull them down slowly. Then you tell him thank you he goes.
Sam: 09:22 And where do you, why do you buy your eggs from?
John: 09:25 From ‘Wangige,’ it’s a big market where people, about 1000 farmers go to that.
Sam: 09:35 Whereabouts in Kenya is it?
John: 09:36 It’s not far. It’s between Nairobi and Kiambu.
Sam: 09:42 So it’s maybe 40 minutes?
John: 09:45 If you have a personal car is half an hour.
Sam: 09:49 Okay.
John: 09:49 It’s not far. But now the cash, I don’t have a car so I have to…
Sam: 09:56 Take a ‘matatu.’
John: 09:57 I have to use a ‘matatu.’
Sam: 09:59 So the, all the, poultry farmers, the egg farmers that are coming to this market.
John: 10:06 Very many. Over a thousand farmers come, there is a market place. They bring their eggs. Customer know, they go buy their egg there. They go.
Sam: 10:16 And so are you buying directly from the farmer?
John: 10:19 Yeah, exactly. I have three, four farmers who they are, we are used to. Okay. When they, they come, they phone, we have arrived, OK, I’m on the way, when I reach there and I wanted these eggs. Okay. We just bargain and I transact, I pay.
Sam: 10:39 And do you always pay cash or do you have like…
John: 10:41 Always cash.
Sam: 10:42 No they don’t give credit?
John: 10:43 No they don’t give credit because now they are demanding the chicken want to eat. They don’t have money, they have to go and buy.
Sam: 10:50 So they need to get it so you can more eggs Okay. And so you go there is the price still Ksh 270 for a tray?
John: 11:00 No, it is not constant. Sometimes it’s low, sometimes it’s upper.
Sam: 11:05 Why does it change?
John: 11:06 Because of the climate. Like now it’s cold. So the eggs, the chicken are not hatching eggs. Why? Because of the weather. It’s cold. Some who, supposing you didn’t feed them properly? They won’t hatch.
Sam: 11:23 Yeah.
John: 11:23 But if you feed them proper, they will hatch. It goes with the weather and the type, of Type of food you are giving the chicken. There are chicken which, you can, you can have at least 500 chicken, but you are giving them bad, bad.
Sam: 11:45 Bad food,
John: 11:45 Bad food. So the production will be low. But if you give the, the quality, the best quality. They will still, they’ll hatch.
Sam: 11:53 Okay, that’s good. And so you can always get, so normally though you’re always able to get eggs?
John: 12:00 I tell you there are over 1000, 10,000 farmers, over
Sam: 12:06 Okay. So there is no problem with getting eggs
John: 12:09 Getting eggs, unless you don’t have money. Now that time, you can say you won’t get but when you have money you definitely have to get, even if it’s 1000 trays.
Sam: 12:20 Yeah.
John: 12:21 You get them, you pay, you get them, you put them in your car, back off, you go..
Sam: 12:27 Okay. So that’s so it seems like you’ve got quite a good supply chain as in it’s quite simple. You can go, they’re all the…
John: 12:34 But the problem here is only the available money cause I wanted to buy more than at least a hundred and but I reached 80, I’m squeezed, there are problems here and there. I push a portion, so I’m close that, I don’t want to do, I don’t want to go below 80. I want to stand at 80. The little I get, I can use that into the family, to school like that. Okay.
Sam: 13:04 And on, on the, on the demand side, so in terms of who’s buying the eggs, so you, you sell them for Ksh 330, is it?
John: 13:13 No, I sell them, the current is Ksh 300.
Sam: 13:16 Ksh 300. OK.
John: 13:17 So I make 10 shillings for transport. So I can, I know I normally get 10 shillings out of one tray. If I have 80, I have, Ksh 800.
Sam: 13:29 Yeah.
John: 13:30 If they are not broken, if they are broken, you might get Ksh 750, 700 like that.
Sam: 13:37 Okay. So each each time you make a trip and you come back with 80 trays, you’re thinking I’m making about 750 shillings.
John: 13:47 Yeah.
Sam: 13:47 Roughly, which is about $7 50.
John: 13:50 Yeah. That one easily I’ll get it.
Sam: 13:52 You’ll get it.
John: 13:53 Yeah.
Sam: 13:53 Okay. So if you, if you go with that, you’ll come back with that.
John: 13:56 Yeah.
Sam: 13:57 Okay. And, I mean we’re, we’re currently sat in the, this is, this is your, your room?
John: 14:04 Yeah. I’m given this room, after working, I sleep here.
Sam: 14:10 This is an apartment.
John: 14:10 Apartment.
Sam: 14:12 And you keep the, store the eggs here?
John: 14:17 No, I keep my eggs here.
Sam: 14:19 So we’re just looking in the corner of the room is
John: 14:23 Yeah, that’s four eggs.
Sam: 14:25 Yeah. .
John: 14:26 And you see when I, like today I want to finish the whole load. I finish the whole load, then I, I know tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, I’ll go for market.
Sam: 14:37 You’ll go to the next. Okay. Who, so I’m one of your customers so I live a few minutes walk away and I will come to you and I’ll pay 300 shillings to get my tray of eggs. Who else is, who else is buying eggs from you? Yeah. Who else comes and buys.
John: 14:57 There are people, a few apartments, like your apartment. I have three, four apartments. I deliver two, three, four, three, three eggs, four eggs, four trays, about, no five plus those two, six apartment. Usually I take, I deliver them there. Okay. There are others who come here, they take, take their, to their business. Small, others big, others, they’re different.
Sam: 15:27 Sometimes it’s businesses?
John: 15:29 They come here, and I leave at least 10 trays with the soldier. Even if I’m not around, they pay the soldier…
Sam: 15:36 When you say the soldier, this is the guard whose at the gate. So this means if…
John: 15:41 You are not around, I leave them there.
Sam: 15:44 Sometimes I’e done that. I’ve come and I’ve asked for, asked for John, you’ve not been here and the guard has said, oh it’s okay, I’ve got the trays.
John: 15:52 Because now the 10 is easy to calculate. I’ve sold four, so you have six. And they gave me a shot and by the end of the day I just push him something small, he’s happy and we call it a day.
Sam: 16:07 Call it a day. Great, and so it’s, sometimes it’s small businesses, sort of like hotels, restaurants.
John: 16:13 Hotels. They are very many. They are many. But now since my time is limited, It’s only morning when I can go out, I deliver, afternoon I’m occupied here. Now you see I can’t go in the afternoon cause I’m working here. But in the morning I utilize the little time I have, I make sure I have surveyed at least every corner and as I make calls then we communicate because I work from morning to noon, from noon I, business of eggs I finish.
Sam: 16:49 Okay.
John: 16:50 Now go back to my business.
Sam: 16:53 Very good.
John: 16:56 If I can get something like a van.
Sam: 17:01 I was about to say, what are the main challenges.
John: 17:04 The challenges are, now you see 800, wee need to transport them in a keen way, you know because in the, you can go to, you hire a car and that man, that taxi man, he’s been called somewhere else. So he’ll drive you faster. By driving you fast, at least, some things are delicate, will be broken. When he reaches, you tell him let’s move cause he want to go to their other costumer. But you have, if you can have, let’s say a personal car, I tell you me, I can’t do any other job. I can do only this. I know I have my 500 trays. I have sold 300, I’m remaining with, I can do now more, only this. Because now the suppliers I know where I’ll get them, beautiful fresh eggs. From there, I knew where to deliver to customers, but then the challenge is transportation
Sam: 18:10 At the moment you have to take it on ‘matatus’ and so it’s, you have to be there and there’s only enough room for about 80 trays. But if you could get the transports, you know that that would be the, that would be the game changer.
John: 18:25 I can, I can be the happiest man in this world cause I know my luggage will go safely, reach, I’ll keep it there.
Sam: 18:34 And would you be able to sell 500 trays? Because at the moment you’re selling 80 trays. That’s like, 500, that’s like 500% that’s like five times as much.
John: 18:49 No. I can sell even 500 but now that, that time I can tell now the boss, I’m a bit tired with the business, I concentrate on eggs only
Sam: 19:02 So how do you, okay. So let’s sort of think, so who, who would buy, who would be your customers? So at the moment you’ve got some small hotels.
John: 19:12 No, I saw I have a small, but others like my neighbor here, he was telling me when I can deliver 300 trays in one week.
Sam: 19:21 And who is that? What did he do?
John: 19:24 You know, he’s a, has a supermarket.
Sam: 19:27 Okay.
John: 19:27 But he’s a Chinese.
Sam: 19:29 Okay.
John: 19:29 Now I can deliver the 300 but financially, I am weak. Second thing, I don’t have something to carry and to bring and to…
Sam: 19:40 You needed the transport.
John: 19:42 Market is there. If I can go outside on a serious game, I can sell 500 trays a day.
Sam: 19:49 500 a day.
John: 19:51 A day, one day, 500.
Sam: 19:53 No.
John: 19:54 I can sell. I sell here three, the others I sell a hundred, I go another corner, a hundred, finished. I go home.
Sam: 20:02 So where did the, where did the, this Chinese supermarket. Where do they currently buy their eggs from?
John: 20:08 You see the Chinese, they like these African eggs.
Sam: 20:12 Okay.
John: 20:13 Because they have looked at them, they saw they are good quality.
Sam: 20:19 Great quality.
John: 20:20 They enjoy them.
Sam: 20:22 Yeah.
John: 20:22 So they need them.
Sam: 20:24 Okay.
John: 20:25 Now they want a constant…
Sam: 20:27 Constant supply.
John: 20:28 Supplier.
Sam: 20:29 Yeah.
John: 20:29 Maybe I used to learn my, I know we know each other, but now me, I, they tell me of 300, I tell them I will see them, but I don’t go back and go another corner. Because they want too much, which I don’t have.
Sam: 20:45 They want…
John: 20:45 They want many.
Sam: 20:47 Yeah, and it’s you can’t, so they want eggs, you don’t have the money to buy.
John: 20:51 I don’t have the money to buy.
Sam: 20:53 Yeah.
John: 20:53 And I don’t, something to deliver, you see. I gave them, but if I can, if they can be, they tell me deliver 300 and I have a car and money, I deliver.
Sam: 21:08 Yeah.
John: 21:10 Okay. One week I can deliver 500, I go to another place, 500 only eggs.
Sam: 21:18 Yeah.
John: 21:19 Only Eggs. And I mix eggs. This grade and ‘Kienyeji.’ There are two types.
Sam: 21:25 Say it again.
John: 21:27 There are these grade.
Sam: 21:29 Gray?
John: 21:30 This grade, is normal.
Sam: 21:32 Okay.
John: 21:33 And the other one, local, local chicken which are, when they go to look for them, their food outside.
Sam: 21:41 Okay. Which, which ones are better?
John: 21:44 Those ones are, they are very rare. They are not many, they’re rare. Cause now you see this is, if you have two brothers you share the small portion you have, you fence yours and maybe he’s growing onion and ‘skuma,’ spinach.
Sam: 22:03 Yeah.
John: 22:03 You don’t need any chicken to go in the garden. So many people have, they have, they have fenced where they’re putting poultry.
Sam: 22:16 Yeah.
John: 22:18 But the others are better than these. They are very rich.
Sam: 22:22 Why? Why are they better?
John: 22:23 Because of the type, their type but honestly, they are good. They are good. But if I were told which, choose among the two, I would choose the other one and they are rich more than, but even these, they are good.
Sam: 22:40 Even these are good.
John: 22:42 Cause many people now. I don’t know, and also there’s no as this one.
Sam: 22:47 Okay. How many do you, do you eat eggs? Do you have eggs to eat?
John: 22:54 No. Let’s say when they are broken, that time I say you now at least, like yesterday I took four. Yeah.
Sam: 23:01 Okay. So when they are, when there’s like some which are slightly broken.
John: 23:05 When they are not broken me, I don’t eat, I sell, I sell. When they’re broken now I say these I don’t know, somebody to sell and I bought them. I bought yesterday.
Sam: 23:17 Yeah. So John, we’ll sort of just finish up now. But basically it’s, I mean I’ve, this is just, it sounds very, very interesting. Like you’ve had the business for, is it two years now?
John: 23:35 No, This is. Yeah. This is the second year.
Sam: 23:37 Second year. Yeah. So you’ve gone from five, five trays.
John: 23:40 Yeah. Now I’m at 80.
Sam: 23:42 Now you’re kind of looking at, okay, how can we get to the…
John: 23:46 If I can get something to boost me, I go instead of going for 80, after one day I go another 80…
Sam: 23:54 At the moment, you’re saying the demand is there. So people want to buy,?
John: 24:00 People want, I tell you my neighbor here, here, the Chinese supermarket, they know me. There’s a time I delivered them but I didn’t, we didn’t go far. They know me. I know they, they delay paying but they pay.
Sam: 24:20 Yeah.
John: 24:21 They are good.
Sam: 24:22 Okay.
John: 24:23 If he tells me bring, he will take them. He sees them. You Count, he writes you an invoice. That’s money. Even if you are not going to get that day, next two days.
Sam: 24:37 Okay. And you recon that, in order to, the thing that you need to grow the business, it’s just the ability to do transport.
John: 24:43 Yeah. If you can get the transport and at least with small capital to add the little you have, you’ll sell. You’ll sell.
Sam: 24:55 Cool. Well, that sounds really good John. I’ll yeah, I’ll certainly be thinking about this and also I will talk to some, some friends.
John: 25:03 Okay.
Sam: 25:04 But yeah.
John: 25:05 I can be very happy. At least somebody, if you can just boost me, small.
Sam: 25:10 Yeah.
John: 25:11 You’ll also see you cause now I won’t tell you of 80, I will tell you 200, 300.
Sam: 25:19 Will you have enough space because at the moment this, at the moment the eggs are in the room but do you need a new place to store them?
John: 25:26 No, I can now talk to the boss here.
Sam: 25:29 Yeah.
John: 25:29 We keep them outside.
Sam: 25:31 It’s a big car-park.
John: 25:33 There’s a small portion. I tell him I will utilize this, because he knows me. [Inaudible] Cause he knows me, I’m a bit hardworking and I don’t have anything else in my mind. I know his time. I know my time.
Sam: 25:57 Yeah.
John: 25:59 No, the place to put, there is. Even I can remove this thing, I put another hundred there, another hundred and another hundred here. The space is still on, yeah.
Sam: 26:13 Awesome. Cool. Well John, thank you so much.
John: 26:16 OK. Thank you Sam.
Sam: 26:18 Asante sana
A very inspiring story, I came across this in search of the business.
Am inspiring to do the business either with a motorbike or a uber car.Though the story seems to be a little bit old,wish John is doing fine and I wish could communicate with him for mor advise